[Sulis]

Hard to believe this kind of crap still goes on, this poor, poor girl:

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A 16-YEAR-OLD girl was buried alive by relatives in southeast Turkey in a gruesome honour killing just because she reportedly befriended boys, the Anatolia news agency reported today.
Acting on a tip-off, police discovered Medine Memi's body in a sitting position with her hands tied, in a two-metre deep hole in a chicken pen outside her house in Kahta town, Adiyaman province, 40 days after she went missing, the agency said.

A subsequent post mortem revealed that she had a significant amount of soil in her lungs and stomach, meaning that she was buried alive, forensic experts told the agency.

"The autopsy result is blood-curdling. According to our findings, the girl, who had no bruises on her body and no sign of narcotics or poison in her blood, was alive and fully conscious when she was buried," one anonymous expert said.

Medine's father and grandfather have been formally arrested and jailed pending trial over her killing, the agency said.

The father is reported to have said in his testimony that the family was unhappy she had male friends.

In honour killings, most prevalent in Turkey's mainly Kurdish southeast, a so-called family council names a member to murder a female relative considered to have sullied the family honour, usually by engaging in an extra-marital affair.

But the practice has gone so far as to kill rape victims or women who simply talked to strange men.

The first thing that I thought after reading this was 'ignorant, bloody savages'

Not sure what the worst part of this 'honour' killing is, that fact that she was killed in such a cruel way or that it was her family that did this to her and you can bet your last dollar the the father and grandfather won't get any significant jail time. It's hard to believe that in the 21st century there are still pockets of this world that haven't evolved past the stone age,

The turkish government needs to drag that province into the 21st century, kicking and screaming if need be.

Do you think that governments should force cultures/groups like this to assimilate into mainstream society?

[Evolence]

That's pretty horrific. I think governments should act very harshly in circumstances like these. The full extent of the law should come to bear against perpetrators.

[perfectsim]

I've said it once and I'll say it again. Until these savages stop burying family members and start burning them with acid instead, nobody will ever learn.

[Iceheart]

What gets me is that there aren't any bruises, and she wasn't drugged. I take it this means she went willingly, or at least without a fight? Crap

[Primbud]

I don't know enough about the history of these things (how honourable is it? what if they believe in reincarnation?) except that it happened enough to make any real comments - most Governments seem like businesses anyway so I can't take their side, at least I know that much. But I don't know enough about the other 'side' ... 

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government needs to drag that province into the 21st century, kicking and screaming if need be

This kind of comment should have the speaker buried alive. I say more power to those who resist change.

[Undome Telcontar]

whichever way you cut it, it's still murder.

and it's called balance. change for its own sake is stupid, but if everyone was that conservative we wouldn't have medicine, space travel, electric vehicles, computers... anything that requires a paradigm shift, really.

[Iceheart]

Primbud, on 05 February 2010 - 11:24 AM, said:

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government needs to drag that province into the 21st century, kicking and screaming if need be

This kind of comment should have the speaker buried alive. I say more power to those who resist change.

Even when the system is obviously flawed? Even when the change would noticeable improve the quality of life for people?

[DeathLurtz]

Who are you to tell these people that they are wrong? How do we know that killing this girl didn't actually bring honor to the family in the eyes of the god that they believe in, which may be the only existing god.

While I think this is horrific, and may be stretching the beliefs of these people a little further than they were intended to be interpreted, I don't think we are right to sit in our silk pajamas in front of our expensive computers and call these people savages and say that they should be erradicated from the earth. Persecuting these people over what they believe brings honor to their family is just as wrong as me saying that it's silly for jews to believe that moses is the messiah and they should be stricken dead for being such savages.

[irishdancer2]

Sulis, on 04 February 2010 - 07:16 PM, said:

In honour killings, most prevalent in Turkey's mainly Kurdish southeast, a so-called family council names a member to murder a female relative considered to have sullied the family honour, usually by engaging in an extra-marital affair.

But the practice has gone so far as to kill rape victims or women who simply talked to strange men.

In my history class last year, we read an article about the honor killings of rape victims and then had to do a discussion board posting on if we thought it was sometimes okay for our governments to get involved in foreign affairs of that nature. I was somewhat astounded by the number of people in my class who basically said, "Meh, it's not our problem, we shouldn't do anything about it." I don't really care how you slice--some things are just wrong, and burying someone alive is one of those things. How can anyone possibly think that's okay? And worse, how can someone be so ambivalent towards something like that? I don't get it

[Iceheart]

DeathLurtz, on 05 February 2010 - 06:03 PM, said:

Who are you to tell these people that they are wrong? How do we know that killing this girl didn't actually bring honor to the family in the eyes of the god that they believe in, which may be the only existing god.

While I think this is horrific, and may be stretching the beliefs of these people a little further than they were intended to be interpreted, I don't think we are right to sit in our silk pajamas in front of our expensive computers and call these people savages and say that they should be erradicated from the earth. Persecuting these people over what they believe brings honor to their family is just as wrong as me saying that it's silly for jews to believe that moses is the messiah and they should be stricken dead for being such savages.

I agree that there are some cultural customs that may look "bad" or "wrong" from the outside but you have to have a live-and-let-live attitude, particularly since if you know the reason for the custom, it often seems much less "strange"... but if you knew this girl, would you be able to shrug your shoulders and say to her "well, tough luck, but we all have to respect your family's beliefs and practices"? I'd never say the culture as a whole needs to be eradicated, but I do definitely believe in preserving human life.

I'd like to hear what the family's spiritual leader and religious community has to say about this.

[Evolence]

I'd say that one man's ability to honor his god ends where another life begins. Murder should NEVER be culturally acceptable.

[Sulis]

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Murder should NEVER be culturally acceptable.

Exactly. it's murder plain and simple and can never be justified in the name of 'tradition'

[Mara Jade Skywalker]

DeathLurtz, on 05 February 2010 - 06:03 PM, said:

Who are you to tell these people that they are wrong? How do we know that killing this girl didn't actually bring honor to the family in the eyes of the god that they believe in, which may be the only existing god.

While I think this is horrific, and may be stretching the beliefs of these people a little further than they were intended to be interpreted, I don't think we are right to sit in our silk pajamas in front of our expensive computers and call these people savages and say that they should be erradicated from the earth. Persecuting these people over what they believe brings honor to their family is just as wrong as me saying that it's silly for jews to believe that moses is the messiah and they should be stricken dead for being such savages.

Dude, this isn't just about an issue of not letting women wear certain clothes or talk to certain people or do certain things. THEY KILLED HER. I don't care who you are or where you live--that's just wrong.

[DeathLurtz]

I agree that it is wrong. I wasn't disputing that. I would never agree with such a practice. I guess I just don't like the language. Calling these people "ignorant bloody savages" over religious practices is pretty ignorant itself.

I do agree that these guys should be prosecuted and charged with murder, but, like Iceheart, I would definitely be interested in what the spiritual leaders or even the other family members would have to say. Maybe they too feel like they shed themselves of some dishonor.

[Sulis]

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I guess I just don't like the language. Calling these people "ignorant bloody savages" over religious practices is pretty ignorant itself.

I stand by what I said earlier. Only an ignorant savage would do that to a member of their family.