[Mara Jade Skywalker]

Quote

its also worth notihng that for the original star wars films lucas consulted with people like francis ford coppala, steven spielberg and others.

Lucas consulted with Spielberg for the prequels. In fact, Spielberg had a big part in the Yoda/Palpatine fight in ROTS. I don't know where you got this information, but it's wrong.


Also, what is wrong with consulting children, if you're trying to make films that appeal to children?

[Lordvader34]

Heres the deal. I have also a starlog mag from 1987 where Lucas says that in episode 3 that luke and leia are 2 a half yrs old. This explains how Leia can remember her REAL mother in return of the jedi.

As it is now thanks to the pathetic prequels liea is 5 seconds old when her real mom dies so this produces another plot hole. Sure one can say she seen her with force images but why didnt luke? Lucas also says leias real mom takes her to live on alderana. amazing how nicely everything would have tied together had lucas stuck with his original dieas wouldnt it? but no he chose to film it in such a way that everything is far fetched and makes no sense.

also for thoe of you that says she remembers her real mom from pictures. thats fine for remembering what she looks like but leia also said she remember her being SAD. for her to remember that she would have had to of been arpund her.

now lets get the ball rolling on you so called fans who are gonna say "yeah that makes no sense but who cares" guess what..Im a REAL fan I do care. I care that no thought or caring went into making these three films and that they were used as a cash machine to rake in the money. Lucas even went so far as to say "these films dont have to be good" thats pathetic. yet some of you defend it and act like it doesnt bother you. then want to jump down my throat because I love star wars enough to actually care.

heres the low down on why Lucas made all the changes he did compared to how he was originally going to film the pt films. MONEY and he had to appeal to a new generation of little kids. and this is how he did it and gary kurtz has even said some of this .

the first step was re relasing the ot films in 97 to get paraents to take their kids to the theater to see star wars and get the ball rolling on the new fan base.

2nd you couldnt make the phantom menace a serius film with serious acting and dramatic screenplay because children would not like it and they would get bored. whats the best way to get kids to be fans. make the center point of the film a KID. add a character like jar jar. pahntom menace was geared towards children. he dumbed down the entire film. also lucas says in 87 that the x wing fighters that were in the ot were old out dated ships that the rebellion had to use cause they couldnt afford the modern up to date fighters like the empire has and that x wings would be in the PT films as state of the art fighters. well for all the toy collctors most of them already have an x wing and y wing and other OT ships so you have to give them a new line of ships to buy. hence the fact the new ships in the movie. another MONEY motivated scheme on lucas part that affects the PT films.

so start the hero anakin off as a KID to appeal to the little children and then in episode 2 make teen age kiddie bopper anakin where he has a pathetic romance with padme to appeal to the 12 13 14 yr olds etc..etc

episode 1 and 2 were used as 2 long commericals to sell toys and to appeal to KIDS to make a new generation of fans and by using uo those two films on nonsense and not sticking to his original outline by the time episode 3 came around there was too much to do in too little time and there had been no character development and no matter what he done by this time it was already ruined.
the bottom line for the pt films is this. thy were milked for money and the franchise was pimped out for lucas to make money he was even quoted as saying "these films dont have to be good" we were given a 9 yr old anakin who spews off immature ridicules comments and then a teen age BRAT who whines and cries like a spoiled baby. WOW! lukes mon dies of a broken heart there is no way leia can remember her real mother every thing ben told luke in his hut in a new hope is now made out to be either a lie or just flat out did not happen...

now on the flip side of that if lucas would have stuck to his original out line we could have gotten a 20 yr old anakin in epoisode 1 who is a great warrior and pilot who becomes friends with obi wan who decides to train anakin who talks anamkin in to going with him to fight in the clone wars which his brother owen does not agree with and tries to talk anakin out of but anakin goes anyway and obi wan and anakin become the best of friends and become heros of the clone war and ben and anakin talking one day and anakin telling ben when his son is old enough he wants him to have his saber anakin when encounters the dark sideof his training some how becomes possed and seducded and starts turning to evil through no fault of his own and turns on the jedi order and owen blames ben and the jedi for his brothers down fall hence all the hate in owen about ben and him wanting luke not to turn out like his father and padme and leia going to alderan together at the end of episode 3

now imagine everyything that was said in the ot actually playing out in the pt films and anakin not being presented as an IDIOT and a teen age whiney brat. imagine how great these flms could have been.

now you so called fans go ahead and bash me and talk about how im a fool for caring too much or say im an idiot because i wanted and expected quality from this beloved franchise.

in the immortal words of jar jar binks the prequls are DOO DOO. or was it POO DOO that he steped in. doesnt matter. they are pure shi* thats all that matters.

[Zerimar Nyliram]

"Poodoo" does not mean "poop," it means "fodder." The stuff the bantha eats.

As I said before, quit with the persecution complex thing. You come in here complaining left and right, whining about how much you hate the prequels with every post you make, attacking the other members who are trying to have a civil discussion with you, and then you go, "Waaaah! Stop bashing me!"

Okay, we get it: you don't like the prequels. You've made your point, now move on already! Most of the things you came up with were the result of not listening or thinking. You had a few legitimate points, but the problem is that they've been discussed to death on here already. Most of us are tired of the same old debates. You can very easily find answers to most of your concerns by searching these forums, or even by doing a Google search.

Now, untie your panties and stop being such a baby.

This post has been edited by Zerimar Nyliram: 27 November 2009 - 02:19 PM

[Mike the Jedi]

Hey, LV, if you wanted a story that predictable, then what would've been the point of even making the prequels? I'm no fan of the Flannelled One's writing style, but frankly I'm very glad the films didn't turn out the way so many fans envisioned. Kudos to Lucas for at least taking a chance with story elements everyone took for granted. If he had followed the prequel storyline that literally, using just pieces of information we get in the originals with no left turns or brow-raising moments, I would surely have fallen asleep in the theater. With our prior knowledge of who would live and who must die, there was never going to be much tension in the prequels, something the OT didn't have to deal with. Because we knew which important characters were going to live, our suspense and excitement would always be limited. With that in mind being very literal with the storyline would've done the film no favors. Yes, the prequels left much to be desired, but I'd rather have a clunky set of movies than a predictable trilogy every fanfic writer had already written.

Lucas has always made things up as he went along, and it shows, both in the originals and in the prequels. If things don't fit as well as you would've liked, then that's just the way Lucas operates and has always operated. It's nothing specific to the new films. And if you want to see truly bad ideas, read some Star Wars fanfiction. Jedi fighting clones of themselves, Vader falling into lava, etc. Even the EU... a clone of Palpatine? That is ****. George is far from perfect, but he's not that bad.

[Stevil]

Quote

Hello all. I am new to the star wars films and watched them on a friends advice. While I enjoyed all six I could not help but notice and feel that the newer ones were not as well written and made as the old ones. Is this just me or do others share this opinion?

The old ones seemed very serious and to the point while the new ones seemed to lack emotion and had way too many attempts at sad humor. I hope my point of view does not offend anyone. Were the same people involved with all 6? Why do they seem so different in quality?

^ Posted 12/10/2009

Lordvader34, on 25 Nov 2009, 11:46 PM, said:

Heres the deal. I have also a starlog mag from 1987

^ Posted today.

[Mike the Jedi]

He said he borrowed those mags from friends... sure he did. In any case, my own replies aren't so much meant to address him as they are his criticisms since all of his complaints are commonplace in fandom. As fans, he at least gives us something to talk about.

[Lordvader34]

A healthy civil debate should always be welcomed so long as it is respectful towards all. It's better than letting a forum die and have one conversation every 3 weeks.

yes, I borrowed them from a friend. the ptfilms could have had all the things said in the ot played out and still had plenty of surprises for everyone. Like I said if Lucas would have made the pt films in the episodd 5 fashion where it was dramatic and philosphical because kids get bored at that. that is why most all children under a certain age think or thought episode 5 was the worst one because kids crave action and special effects. adults and critics pan episode 5 the best because from a film makers standpoint it is. the best written and acted and most kids liked episode 66 best cause it had ewoks and tons of action every 5 seconds and that is the one ironicly that started the down hill spiral from the critics and adult fans. it was easy to see a difference in quality from a new hope and empire compared to jedi. ironicly that is also the one where gary kurtz left and marica lucas and where lucas took complete control again with a focus on marketing and toys and kids and we see the result and he kept that philosophy with the prequels.

some like to say star wars was meant for kids anyways. well when you look at the videos and pics of those l;ong lines that strecthed arounfd the city blocks back in 77 and 80 and 83 you seen mostly adults and it was adults getting married in starw ars costumes andf to the theme song. lucas can say star wars is meant for kids all he wants but the originals appealed to adults just as much because they wee not dumbed down like most kids movies....(see episodes 1 and 2). the pt films were sacrificed for greed. the sad part is they would have still made a billion dollarts if lucas would have made them mature and well written and well acted without dumbing it down. but what he couldnt have gotten from it if he filmed and written them in the style of episode 5 and 4 is the new kid fan base....which in turn would have prevented his cartoon network shows and his toy lines. Lucas might be an awful writer but hes a genius buiosnesman and he clearly set down with his advisors in 96 or 97 and said "ok whats the best way to appeal to the kids and bring in an entire new fan base) because us adults were already fans we were gonna see it no matter what so he didnt have to worry abut pleasing us. he had to focus on the kiddies. he did an excellent job.

[t-spoon]

Lordvader34, on 26 Nov 2009, 09:59 PM, said:

A healthy civil debate should always be welcomed so long as it is respectful towards all.

Bitching about why you think the new movies suck isn't debate.

[Lordvader34]

Im not just bitching about it I am giving my reasons why I dont like them. Just cause you personaly get offended when some one trashes the PT films does not give you the right to say what a person can and can not talk about. you can claim not to be a gusher all you want but its clear it offends you when some one calls the pt films out for what they are.

[t-spoon]

Lordvader34, on 26 Nov 2009, 10:18 PM, said:

Im not just bitching about it I am giving my reasons why I dont like them.

One in the same.

You still don't understand. It's not that I disagree with you on any particular complaint. It's just that you're not saying anything worthy of discussion.

'I think Anakin being a little kid in Episode I is stupid.'

OK. And?

Also, you said this

Lordvader34, on 25 Nov 2009, 06:46 PM, said:

now lets get the ball rolling on you so called fans who are gonna say "yeah that makes no sense but who cares" guess what..Im a REAL fan I do care.

thus confirming your d-bag status.

[Lordvader34]

If you dont like what I have to say then why not just ignore my post? At least I am trying to dig up debate and conversation. you are doing nothing but attacking another poster cause you dont like what he or she has said. you dont like a toipic of a thread then dont post in it. its that simple.

[t-spoon]

You saw what I just wrote, right?

[Lordvader34]

Stay on topic or dont post in this thread. it's that simple.

[Stevil]

There's no discussion or debate here because no matter what any of the fine posters here say to you you ignore it and spout your next ream of ****.

[Zerimar Nyliram]

Oh, I love when noobs try to run the show.

If you want to go down that road, you are no longer on-topic either because you created this thread with the purpose of discussing who the Jedi had been fighting for a thousand years. Now you're talking about different things.

Also, I am going to repeat my previous post because I feel it is important. Unfortunately, other people have posted since then, and God knows you only read like half of the very last post on the page, so here it is again:

Quote

As I said before, quit with the persecution complex thing. You come in here complaining left and right, whining about how much you hate the prequels with every post you make, attacking the other members who are trying to have a civil discussion with you, and then you go, "Waaaah! Stop bashing me!"

Okay, we get it: you don't like the prequels. You've made your point, now move on already! Most of the things you came up with were the result of not listening or thinking. You had a few legitimate points, but the problem is that they've been discussed to death on here already. Most of us are tired of the same old debates. You can very easily find answers to most of your concerns by searching these forums, or even by doing a Google search.

Now, untie your panties and stop being such a baby.

[Lordvader34]

I created the thread about who the jedi have been fighting because I think that fact alone is proof of pathetic writing and that lead off to the same area as other reasons why i find the pt films to be garbage. thats different than coming in and posting how and why i shouldnt be saying what I say. its very simple if you dont like what I have to say DONT RESPOND TO ME OR DONT READ MY THREADS. very simple is it not? nuff said!

[Zerimar Nyliram]

How is that proof of anything? You think the Jedi have been sitting around with their thumbs up their asses for a thousand years? The very fact that the Jedi are seen using their lightsabers and battling droids at the very beginning of The Phantom Menace should give you some indication as to what they've been doing all along: battling other bad guys! I mean, it'd be wonderful if a galaxy existed where everyone behaved and the Sith were the only ones to ever cause trouble, but come on! Surely some amount of reason exists in you? (And you're still insisting that this is a valid point when other people have clearly pointed out that it is not, which tells me that you're either not listening or that you've got bigger denial issues than anyone I've ever met.)

Once again, quit playing the victim here. You say you posted this thread to start a discussion, and people have given you just that; but you were a dick about it and you played the persecution card. No one here has told you that you shouldn't say this or that, they've simply reacted the same way most people would react when you yell at them or talk down to them (as you've done). Most people don't just sit there and take it.

But . . . No, you're right. What am I saying? The problem here is clearly with everyone else but you. My bad.

[t-spoon]

Lordvader34, on 27 Nov 2009, 03:32 PM, said:

if you dont like what I have to say DONT RESPOND TO ME

But it's so much more fun responding.

[Stevil]

Lordvader34, on 27 Nov 2009, 08:32 PM, said:

I created the thread about who the jedi have been fighting because I think that fact alone is proof of pathetic writing and that lead off to the same area as other reasons why i find the pt films to be garbage. thats different than coming in and posting how and why i shouldnt be saying what I say. its very simple if you dont like what I have to say DONT RESPOND TO ME OR DONT READ MY THREADS. very simple is it not? nuff said!

On page 1 I told you that the whole premise of the Jedi is that they are not just about fighting and negated your point and the whole topic. Your questions are not facts. The fact that you don't understand something doesn't make it proof. The action of cutting and pasting other people's gripes doesn't back up your non-existent point.

Ignorance is bliss though isn't it! Some of the people replying to you have watched Star Wars more times than you've had hot dinners and yet you continue this pointless assault.

By your own admission, you've only watched the films this year for the first time. That's not an issue. But what is fact is that Revenge of the Sith Wrapped up 4 years ago and you're not bringing anything new to the table. It's ancient history as far as cinema goes. If you didn't enjoy them fine, get over it and move on. Why are you wasting your time?

[Lordvader34]

if its ancient history why even have a forum for star wars at all? you do know what a forum is dont you? a place where people post their opinions and likes and dislikes about certain things. so if its history why dont you just close this place down all together or post a big warning sign "do not start threads about anything relating to any of the 6 star wars movies because they are ancient history and no one wants to talk about them"? hmmm?

[Troublemaker]

Quote

20 POINT INTERNET ARGUMENT TEMPLATE

1. presentation of unusual claim/idea
2. favored connotation or definition
3. presentation of personal opinion
4. presentation of experience and observation leading to personal opinion
5. refutation of existing evidence
6. presentation of alternate unorthodox evidence
7. digression on "theory/hypothesis/fact/scientific method/proof/challenge to disprove a negative/evidence"
8. questioning and refutation of existing definitions and methods
9. digression on an aforementioned term and claim of personal knowledge or expertise
10. presentation of credentials (includes secret military clearance) indicating superior topic knowledge
11. questioning other posters' credentials
12. accusation of ignorance and need for continued learning
13. other snide remark or borderline ad hominen attack
14. conclusion as to why alternate explanation is more logical than existing theory
15. ten word dismissive garbage post based on unspecified data
16. assertion that other posters are blind/unable to think independently, and parrot appropriate "party line" statements or conclusions
17. question refuting posters as to their motive for being on forum or subforum
18. agreeing to disagree
19. alleged washing hands of particular posters
20. threaten to report other posters

.....and I think you guys are on about #17 right about now

[Zerimar Nyliram]

Zerimar Nyliram, on 27 Nov 2009, 09:43 PM, said:

No, you're right. What am I saying? The problem here is clearly with everyone else but you. My bad.

There. End of discussion. He wins.

See, I need to keep repeating myself because this lazy bastard one reads last posts, and only if they're short. If they are longer than three lines, he only reads select portions (and looks like an ass by taking things out of context and completely missing the point).

[Lordvader34]

lazy bastard? I think we all see who results to immature name calling and being offensive and disrespectful.

[t-spoon]

Lordvader34, on 27 Nov 2009, 07:16 PM, said:

if its ancient history why even have a forum for star wars at all? you do know what a forum is dont you?

Well he may be acting like a condescending prick, but at least he isn't denying it.

Lordvader34, on 27 Nov 2009, 11:40 PM, said:

lazy bastard? I think we all see who results to immature name calling and being offensive and disrespectful.

Oh damn.

[Exodus]

This is getting a bit ridiculous. You guys need to tone it down or knock it off.

[t-spoon]

srsly?

nothing productive is going to come from this thread. dude is just going to be more and more belligerent and you'll have to close it eventually.

[Zerimar Nyliram]

Yeah, I see your point. People with persecution complexes always think every else is to blame but them, and nothing short of psychiatric therapy will make them aware of their own ridiculousness. Best to drop it, I guess.

[Stevil]

Lordvader34, on 28 Nov 2009, 12:16 AM, said:

if its ancient history why even have a forum for star wars at all? you do know what a forum is dont you? a place where people post their opinions and likes and dislikes about certain things. so if its history why dont you just close this place down all together or post a big warning sign "do not start threads about anything relating to any of the 6 star wars movies because they are ancient history and no one wants to talk about them"? hmmm?

Post what you like. I'm not questioning your freedom of speech. I'm questioning your motives. If you want to discuss Star Wars why not check out some of the other fine threads on the board and contribute to those. There are still interesting subjects to talk about without trolling your own thread with negativity.

The posters here are fed up of your one-sided debate. You called me biased 20 or so posts ago but you don't listen to anyone else's opinions. I've been around and about here for 10 years now and no-one could level that at me. I have my opinions and I'll argue what I feel is right but I could never be accused of not listening to sense and giving credit where credit is due. Here you are making your introduction to the boards and it's very difficult to take you seriously when people have taken time to answer you with solid facts and information to help you understand Star Wars properly so you can form your own unbiased opinion.

If you want the God's honest truth, I love the prequels, but even I could list off more things that I don't like/are wrong/are negative/are plot holes about those films than you can plagiarise. 99% of us have heard it all before. People are not being defensive, they're just putting you right on things that have already been discussed to death. I feel like you're not showing people proper respect by not reading their responses properly. There are people who post here who have no time for the prequels at all. They don't need a thread to bitch and whine about it though because they've moved on (hopefully ).

If you're not sure why there's still a Star Wars board at Nightly, you might want to check out the expanded universe novels, the computer games, the new Clone Wars cartoon or read up on the planned live action series that will air in the year 2147. Star Wars is more than 6 films... and we don't have to be negative about all of it!

[Exodus]

This board still ranks pretty decently in terms of traffic among the rest of the forums here at Nightly and churns out some fair stats for a board about a saga whose last movie came out four years ago. There are still comics, novels, and TV shows now and in the future. There will always be plenty of discussion to go around about these movies no matter how old they get.

All good reasons why this thread should be locked up for being so damn far off topic for the most part. We're here to discuss Star Wars, not to flame each other for why we do or don't like it. This was inevitable. Next time you guys get in a thread together and start discussing this stuf, keep it clean.