[Lordvader34]

According to episode 1 the sith had been extinct for over 1000 yrs. If that is the case no jedi on the council has ever fought a sith lord or fought in a real life or death lightsaber battle with anyone before darth maul come along. Who were the jedi fighting those 1000 yrs? Purse snatchers? Death stick salesmen?

This is just another plotpoint that has made me not like the PT films.

They have not been around for 1000 yrs and then all the sudden a sith lord decides to pop up out of no where? On top opf that this sith rule of two? This is ridicules. The jedi are in the thousands and there can be only 2 sith at a time? What happens if those two sith have a space ship crash or some other unfourtant event that kills them? I guess the sith are gone forever?

Lucas had almost 20 yrs to write these films. It is as if he put no thought into them at all. To make matters worse I read that when he filmed episode 1 he had not even begun writing epsiode 2. Which proves he rushed these stories when you consider from the time episode 1 was released episode 2 came out exactly 3 yrs later. Very sloppy film making and writing. Maybe his 20 yr retirement had something to do with this. Considering how great american graffit was and a new hope. Then again I have read that gary kurtz and his ex wife marica lucas was his right hand man and woman for amaerican graffite and a new hope and empire strikes back and then once they are gone there is a significant drop in ther quality of his films. Coincidence or did he just lose what talent he had?

[Mara Jade Skywalker]

Wow I am getting flashbacks to five years ago with all the complaining.

Lordvader34, on 17 Nov 2009, 02:06 PM, said:

Who were the jedi fighting those 1000 yrs? Purse snatchers? Death stick salesmen?

They were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Why does it need to be explained who they were "fighting"? That's not really important.

Quote

They have not been around for 1000 yrs and then all the sudden a sith lord decides to pop up out of no where?

Well no, Palpatine did not decide to "pop up out of no where."

Quote

On top opf that this sith rule of two? This is ridicules. The jedi are in the thousands and there can be only 2 sith at a time? What happens if those two sith have a space ship crash or some other unfourtant event that kills them? I guess the sith are gone forever?

The "rule of two" is described a lot more in the Expanded Universe. And George Lucas didn't come up with it, FYI.

Quote

It is as if he put no thought into them at all.

Well I don't think that's a very fair statement at all, considering how long he worked on the prequels. If you don't care for his filmmaking, that's cool, but I don't see how you can question his dedication. (Yes Tank, I'm defending Lucas again! Muahahahaha!)

[Tank]

I won't slight you for defending Lucas' dedication.

he was VERY dedicated.... to making money.

[Primbud]

Mara Jade Skywalker, on 17 Nov 2009, 02:58 PM, said:

They were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Why does it need to be explained who they were "fighting"? That's not really important.

Furthermore, it's why it's called Star WARS, so when these warring times occurred, we get these EPISODES ...

[Jedi Cool]

Jedi were peacekeepers. They fought pirates, slavers, and other criminals. They mediated disputes and assisted in providing humanitarian aid.

[Ixion]

I really like the 'rule of 2' idea. I know some don't but ultimately how many Sith are there in the OT? Lucas coudn't just introduce an entire Order of them and conveniently have them all dead by the end of Episode 3, it was Jedi Purge not Sith.

[Tank]

Actually, I always thought the Sith equalled the Jedi in number and they all came together for one big battle, and the Emperor, not wanting anyone to survive, cause even a Sith might over throw him, somehow nuked the planet death star style.

[Zerimar Nyliram]

I've only briefly glanced at the original post, but I'm going to answer it with some good old-fashioned common sense:

There are other bad people in galaxy besides the Sith! Did you not notice how many different sorts of villains they battled onscreen? That alone should give you a clue.

I also like the Rule of Two and think it works out quite well. It makes sense, too. While it may have been a spur-of-the-moment decision for George Lucas, totally going against what he had originally wanted the Sith to be, is it really out of line with how he handled them in the original Trilogy? It seems to me that when he wrote the finalized scripts, he clearly changed his mind on the whole Sith thing, having them take a backseat in favor of a secular totalitarian empire. They aren't even mentioned in the original Trilogy. Not even once! In fact, not many people know this, but the origin of the term "Dark Jedi" comes from Timothy Zahn's novels, where he refers to Darth Vader and the Emperor as such, thinking that Lucas has all but scrapped the whole Sith thing entirely.

But I think the way that George Lucas revisited the Sith concept in the prequels and brought them back to the forefront was very well done. One of the few things executed exceptionally well, in fact.

[Exodus]

The rule of two isn't absolute. You can have a Sith Lord, his apprentice, and okay...what if a rogue Jedi leaves the order and takes up the mantle of Darth by his own accord? What if he's more powerful than the Sith Lord? Greater force mastery? More skilled with a lightsaber? And what if he or she takes on the role of master to an apprentice of their own? This pattern could continue endlessly. Because Sith lurk in the shadows and conspire in secrecy, how would any one master and their apprentice know of the rest?

What if Palpatine were just one of many Sith Lords enacting a plan to rise to power as the senator of a backwater planet? I'm envisioning a scene like the one in Fun with Dick and Jane where Jim Carrey shows up for a job interview, only to discover there are dozens more just like him.

[Zerimar Nyliram]

A self-proclaimed Sith would be just that: a Sith in name only. The real Sith are an unbroken tradition spanning many millennia, with all of their long-standing philosophies and practices kept under tight wraps. Of course there's nothing stopping some random Schmoe from going, "I am Sith! Rar!" just as there is nothing stopping me from proclaiming myself a history professor because I study history independently but have no formal degree or education.

But you are right in that the Rule of Two isn't absolute, because both Sidious and Vader bent it beyond recognition. If you work the timeline out (even just going by the established movie timeline alone), it would mean that Sidious took on Maul as his apprentice while he himself was still apprenticed to Darth Sidious. But Maul undoubtedly was not ordained a Sith (with the title of Darth) until Plagueis was finally slain, as it is clear that Palpatine still believed in the Rule of Two, albeit a lot more liberally than his predecessors over the past thousand years. As Emperor, Palpatine had hoards of secret dark side minions, sometimes including entire organizations such as the Emperor's Hands and others. But all of these were taught only the basic ways of the dark side of the Force, not the ways of the Sith.

Vader took on many apprentices, including Galen Marek ("Starkiller" from The Force Unleashed, who is probably the most well known now) and Lumiya, the self-proclamed "Dark Lady of the Sith" (again, self-proclaimed). He intended to eventually use these people to overthrow the Emperor and become the Sith Master himself, going on to ordain his as-yet unofficial apprentice as his true Sith Apprentice. (This is not unlike what Palpatine did with Maul.) You can see this same line of thinking in The Empire Strikes Back where Vader offers to complete Luke's training and then overthrow the Emperor together.

I'm not sure if you're an Expanded Universe fan or not, but those examples do answer your questions (if you are not, then you can still reason that scenarios like these likely played out). If you want to see lots of Jedi-versus-Sith action, then the EU is your answer. The game Knights of the Old Republic is a great example of this. For me, I like both: I like seeing thousands of Jedi fighting thousands of Sith adversaries who threaten the galaxy, but I also really like how subtle the Sith have become by the time of the movies and manipulate events from behind the curtain. (If you think about it, the Sith rose to power once again without increasing their numbers beyond two at a time. That's pretty impressive if you ask me.) As such, I find one type of fulfillment in the movies and another in the EU.

[Sinister Lord Degiya'goh]

Jedi Cool, on 17 Nov 2009, 05:33 PM, said:

Jedi were peacekeepers. They fought pirates, slavers, and other criminals. They mediated disputes and assisted in providing humanitarian aid.

Yeah, that's it... the Jedi act as (aggressive) negotiators and ambassadors during the 1000 years when the Sith go into hiding. This was clearly hinted at in the original Star Wars (A New Hope) when Obi-Wan told Luke that "for over a thousand generations the Jedi were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic". He didn't tell Luke that the Jedi's primary purpose was to fight off the Sith Lords.

[Sinister Lord Degiya'goh]

Lordvader34, on 17 Nov 2009, 02:06 PM, said:

Lucas had almost 20 yrs to write these films. It is as if he put no thought into them at all.

He actually wrote the major basis for the overall plot of the prequels way back when he wrote the original Star Wars and he stuck prettty close to his original thoughts and ideas. This can be found in the Prologue to the original Star Wars novelization...

Quote

Another Galaxy, another time.

The Old Republic was the Republic of legend, greater than distance or time. No need to note where it was or whence it came, only to know that...it was the Republic.

Once, under the wise rule of the Senate and the protection of the Jedi Knights, the Republic throve and grew. But as often happens when wealth and power pass beyond the admirable and attain the awesome, then appear those evil ones who have greed to match.

So it was with the Republic at its height. Like the greatest of trees, able to withstand any external attack, the Republic rotted from within though the danger was not visible from the outside.
Aided and abetted by restless, power-hungry individuals within the government, and the massive organs of commerce, the ambitious Senator Palpatine caused himself to be elected President of the Republic. He promised to reunite the disaffected among people and to restore the remembered glory of the Republic.

Once secure in office he declared himself Emperor, shutting himself away from the populace. Soon he was controlled by the very assistants and boot-lickers he had appointed to high office, and the cries of the people for justice did not reach his ears.

Having exterminated through treachery and deception the Jedi Knights, guardians of justice in the galaxy, the Imperial governors and bureaucrats prepared to institute a reign of terror among the disheartened worlds of the galaxy. Many used the Imperial forces and the name of the increasingly isolated Emperor to further their own personal ambitions.

But a small number of systems rebelled at these new outrages. Declaring themselves opposed to the New Order they began the great battle to restore the Old Republic.

From the beginning they were vastly outnumbered by the systems held in thrall by the Emperor. In those first dark days it seemed certain the bright flame of resistance would be extinguished before it could cast the light of new truth across a galaxy of oppressed and beaten peoples...

From the First Saga
Journal of the Whills

So, it really was never going to be about anything other than this... I mean he obviously wanted to show the whole Anakin turning to the dark side thing so that it links up with his redemption in ROTJ, but the primary overall story is about Palpatine's rise to power through his corruption of the Old Republic, and how he manipulated everyone so that he could take over the galaxy. The Sith hiding out for a thousand years (and the rule of two) is simply back story to how they were planning, and plotting, and waiting for the right opportunity to be in position to wipe out the Jedi and take control. And they did it by finding a way to make it essentially an inside job.

[Tex]

Zerimar Nyliram, on 17 Nov 2009, 05:29 PM, said:

There are other bad people in galaxy besides the Sith! Did you not notice how many different sorts of villains they battled onscreen? That alone should give you a clue.

I totally agree with you but I also think this brings up another lapse in logic. Lucas would have us believe that a handful of Jedi could maintain the peace of an entire Galaxy. If we were only talking about a few worlds to worry about I could (maybe) see that working, but since there were likely thousands of different planets with intelligent life I think it's a bit of a stretch to think that the Jedi Counsel was powerful enough to keep the peace without an organized militia to back them up, especially for a thousand years.

Does anyone know exactly how many planets/systems/lives technically fell under the rule of the Republic? I'd really like to know.

Quote

But I think the way that George Lucas revisited the Sith concept in the prequels and brought them back to the forefront was very well done. One of the few things executed exceptionally well, in fact.

I disagree. The two Sith rule was a lazy cop out that's full of holes. It's also rather silly to make it so that no Jedi crossed the line into the dark side for 1000 years (especially when they openly talk about how easy it is to do so). Then again if they only operate in pairs it's not too hard to see how they were all wiped out.

And if you cling to the theory that they used to be organized like the Jedi, thus not abiding the two sith rule, then why would Yoda say "ALWAYS two there are"? Since they've established that the Jedi believe the Sith have been dead for 1000 years we can only assume that Yoda is talking about standard Sith behavior from over 1000 years ago. He also uses the present tense when making his statement, which makes no sense. That would be like people today saying "The Vikings always use speedy boats for sneak."

[t-spoon]

Sinister Lord Degiya, on 18 Nov 2009, 04:56 PM, said:

Lordvader34, on 17 Nov 2009, 02:06 PM, said:

Lucas had almost 20 yrs to write these films. It is as if he put no thought into them at all.

He actually wrote the major basis for the overall plot of the prequels way back when he wrote the original Star Wars

Yeah, well, sorry, but 'there was a thriving Senate and bad guys took it down from within' isn't particularly impressive and it isn't a counter-argument to the accusation that Lucas didn't put enough thought into the prequels.

[Exodus]

What I want to know is what would have been impressive.

Without it being more complicated than it needs to be, of course.

[Zerimar Nyliram]

Tex, on 19 Nov 2009, 12:40 AM, said:

disagree. The two Sith rule was a lazy cop out that's full of holes. It's also rather silly to make it so that no Jedi crossed the line into the dark side for 1000 years (especially when they openly talk about how easy it is to do so). Then again if they only operate in pairs it's not too hard to see how they were all wiped out.

Um, dude, I addressed that already. Didn't you see that? The dark side does not equal the Sith. The Jedi have been struggling with the dark side for those thousand years and any Jedi is free to go down the dark path, which indeed has happened many, many, many times. The Sith are an organization that someone has to actually join, much like the Jedi. But a "Dark Jedi" (a catch-all, and someone inaccurate, term that the EU uses for dark Force users) is not a Sith by default.

In fact, all you need to do to see evidence of this is watch The Clone Wars cartoon. There's Asajj Ventress, who is Dooku's personal Dark Jedi assassin, who is not a Sith.

Quote

And if you cling to the theory that they used to be organized like the Jedi, thus not abiding the two sith rule, then why would Yoda say "ALWAYS two there are"? Since they've established that the Jedi believe the Sith have been dead for 1000 years we can only assume that Yoda is talking about standard Sith behavior from over 1000 years ago. He also uses the present tense when making his statement, which makes no sense. That would be like people today saying "The Vikings always use speedy boats for sneak."

Well, there's the fact that George Lucas has always said that the Sith used to be a large organization for one thing. His backstory - that the Sith order destroyed themselves and that one (Darth Bane) survived and took an apprentice (The character of Darth Bane is actually a creation of George Lucas and not just an EU character. Did you know that? Even his name comes from Lucas' back stories) - can be seen in the novelization of The Phantom Menace.

As for Yoda's line and how he could have known that . . . well, yeah, that's a plot hole (there's an EU explanation, but we won't go there). But still, the facts are all there.



Your comments about the handful of Jedi as keepers of the peace in the galaxy is a valid point. I guess my answer to you is that the term is used very loosely as the Jedi obviously cannot be everywhere at once (and most people of the galaxy have undoubtedly never seen one, and probably doubt their abilities and the existence of the Force as a result). The Republic probably expects each of its worlds to be adequately armed to defend themselves from most threats (Alderaan disarming itself was a bad move, in my opinion) and that other Republiuc militias, the Jedi, and the Clone Army (during the Clone Wars) were only to be dispatches when the odds were ridiculous.

This post has been edited by Zerimar Nyliram: 19 November 2009 - 12:03 PM

[Zerimar Nyliram]

TomPiltoff said:

Yeah, well, sorry, but \'there was a thriving Senate and bad guys took it down from within\' isn\'t particularly impressive and it isn\'t a counter-argument to the accusation that Lucas didn\'t put enough thought into the prequels.

I disagree: look are our own Senate.

[Sinister Lord Degiya'goh]

Tex, on 18 Nov 2009, 06:40 PM, said:

Lucas would have us believe that a handful of Jedi could maintain the peace of an entire Galaxy.

Ummm, there are way more than a "handful" of Jedi shown in the films... I suspect there are probably thousands. I mean, heck, on short notice Mace was able to gather together at least 100 or so Jedi just for the battle of Geonosis alone.

Have you actually watched Episode II?

Tex, on 18 Nov 2009, 06:40 PM, said:

It's also rather silly to make it so that no Jedi crossed the line into the dark side for 1000 years...

Where the heck did you get this idea??? It was never said anywhere in the films that no Jedi ever fell to the dark side in 1000 years. I suspect it probably happened a bunch of times, and the Jedi simply dealt with it by killing off those who turned against them.

All that is actually said in the films is that the Jedi think that "the Sith have been extinct for a millenium", but this doesn't mean that no Jedi have ever fallen to the dark side.

[Zerimar Nyliram]

Well, I believe Lucas said something to the effect that there are only ten thousand Jedi. That sounds like a lot, but when you consider how many people there are in the galaxy, it is a handful. See my explanation above.

[Sinister Lord Degiya'goh]

Zerimar Nyliram, on 20 Nov 2009, 02:56 AM, said:

Well, I believe Lucas said something to the effect that there are only ten thousand Jedi. That sounds like a lot, but when you consider how many people there are in the galaxy, it is a handful. See my explanation above.

But the Jedi aren't responsible for keeping the peace in the entire galaxy, they only keep the peace in the planets of the Republic. Planets in the outer rim, like Tatooine for instance, aren't under the jurisdiction of the Jedi. This fact was established in Episode I. All kinds of bad stuff happens out there, like slavery for instance. So there is a limit to the scope of what the Jedi actually do, so 10,000 is probably enough to handle most if not all situations.

Obviously they weren't prepared to handle a full scale war, but they weren't really expecting a war to happen and the only reason it did happen was because Palpatine was in a position to make it happen. If he hadn't become Chancellor, the Jedi probably would have prevented that war from ever happening, thus the need for an army to suppliment the Jedi never would have arisen.

[Lordvader34]

has he seen attack of the clones? If he is lucky he has not seen it. Has to be the worst piece of film making ever released on the public. Back to the jed if they do number 10 thousand that makes episode 3 even more foolish to think all 10 thousand were killed by order 66. once thje order was given it is a given that maybe 500 or more jedi would die in the sneak attack but not all 10 thousand was around the troopers, its fair to say at least half survived the initial onslought. why not re group and go take the temple back? like obi wan said there is too much at stake. it makes no sense when you think about it with logic. very poor writing and story telling.

[Stevil]

I think we should also point out to our esteemed learned colleague that being a Jedi is being part of a religion and that doesn't mean they go round looking for limbs to sever.

The Jedi spend time exploring the force and training to use it and to be guided by it. I think the peace-keeping bit was a sideline that paid their bills. A Jedi makes an excellent mediator because they can sense deception unless it is hidden from them by a skilled force-user. I think that actual violence is very few and far between. The thing is that most of the content of the movies shows the instances when they have had to use their weapons. But I'm sure most would agree that the movies explore what it is to be a Jedi just as much if not more.

You're quite entitled to hate the prequels. But sometimes reading your posts I sense a lot of ignorance. A lot of the answers you seek are contained in the movies themselves if you only look and listen.

I mean... have you asked yourself "Why did they close the blast doors?".

[Mara Jade Skywalker]

Lordvader34, on 20 Nov 2009, 02:08 PM, said:

Back to the jed if they do number 10 thousand that makes episode 3 even more foolish to think all 10 thousand were killed by order 66. once thje order was given it is a given that maybe 500 or more jedi would die in the sneak attack but not all 10 thousand was around the troopers, its fair to say at least half survived the initial onslought.

First, not every Jedi was killed with Order 66. Second, why wouldn't most of the Jedi fighting in the war be around Troopers? I mean...they were fighting in the war, were they not? Third, I have no idea where you are getting that half must have survived Order 66. The whole point of Order 66 was that it was a calculated attack at a time when most of the Jedi would be away from Coruscant and fighting alongside Clonetroopers. That way they were surprised, overwhelmed, and forced into hiding if they did survive. The Jedi who were left at the Temple were slaughtered by Anakin and the Clonetroopers. There was nothing left to take back.


Lastly, if you think Attack of the Clones is the worst movie ever made, you have obviously never watched an episode of MST3K.

[Zerimar Nyliram]

Yeah, did you not listen to what Obi-Wan said in A New Hope about how Vader "helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights"? That seems to clearly state that many Jedi evaded Order 66, and that the Empire spent time hunting them down in between the two movies. It's called the Great Jedi Purge.

Also, who is this "he" you are referring to? ("Has he not seen Episode II?")

[Lordvader34]

this provokes another interesting question. at the end of revenge of the sith. why did the yoda and obi wan split uo? why did they not go together to kill the emperor and then worry about anakin or vice versa also obi wan defeated anakin and then he and yoda regrouped why didnt obi wan and yoda go back after the emperor. just hrs before there was too much at stake and they had to be killed......obi wan completed his mission and took care of anakin yoda fought palpatine to a tie...why not go back after the emperor instead of waiting 18 yrs for luke to grow of age and expoect him (an untrained jedi) to kill the empeor and vader all by him self?

and yes answers are there for a lot of questions that is not my point my ppoint is how awful the answers are and how they make little sense. such as the statement i just made above abut ben and yoda going bacl after palpatine 2 on 1 instead of going into hiding and allowing the empire to be formed and grow. just poor writing all around. the sad part is it didnt have to be this way if lucas would have actually set down and out some thought into the story. alos the death star looks 1.4 complete at the eend of episode 3 and 18 yrs later its still not yet operational, yet one is built in no time in the ot. why even have the death star in episode 3? it serves no purpose and would have not proiducded plot holes like this where the viewer much scratch his or her head . like i said earlier why was chewbacca even in it? just to give fan boys some delight? making him friends with yoda is ridicules especially considering his best friend han is always saying how the force is fake and a bunch of nonsense yet chewie never says :hey han its real i use to be friends with the greatest jedi master in the galaxy"


i could easily in my mind dismiss all these plot holes and things that make absolutly no sense but why should I or any viewer have to do that? when the films could have been writen properly and tied everything together nicely.

[Zerimar Nyliram]

Oh, now you're just being intentionally ridiculous. When was the last time you easily marched up to a freaking dictator and killed him? Do you think two average schmoes from Iran are going to be able to coordinate an assassination of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad? Yoda was only able to get to the Emperor through a window of opportunity that presented itself in he extremely early days of the Empire (in fact, it was on the freaking first day of its existence): sneaking in during one of the most important senatorial convocations ever. I'm sure that they didn't let something like that happen again. And Luke was only able to take on the Emperor - which he had not even anticipated doing, mind you - because Palpatine had Vader bring him to him.

I'd hate to say it, but you're just being incredibly ridiculous right now. It seems to me that you had some sort of preconceived attitude toward the prequels, that you knew that you were just supposed to hate them, and now instead of just sitting back and watching them for the purpose of trying to enjoy them you're going through and picking out any little thing that could possibly be construed as an inconsistency (and, quite frankly, most of these "plot holes" you're bringing to attention are pretty weak, being easily explain by anyone who watches these movies and makes even the smallest effort to pay attention to the dialogue). Understand that most people do agree that the prequels are inferior, and many people even downright hate them. You'll encounter a few people like that right here on these boards. But I have never seen anyone do what you are doing now.

You didn't pop these movies in for the sake of enjoyment or seeing how well you liked them, you popped them in so you could be as anal retentive as possible and find everything wrong with the prequels, likely based on things you've heard from others. Now, please go back and watch these movies again before you bring forth another silly "plot hole" that isn't there. Or don't watch them if you hate them so much. I don't care, just stop being so damn anal.

[Lordvader34]

Im not looking for problems. the problems jump out at you. SURE I could ignore them or find a solution in my head to excuse them but why should I have to do that? thats not a way to excuse poor writing and the fact lucas put in hardly any effort when writing these films . he clearly did not take any care when it came to connecting the dots with the original 3 so that they all fit together perfectly. Below is many of the reasons why i dislike these 3 films and all these points are not far fecthed they are very good reasons at why someone can point out the pt films are poorly writen and poorly thought out.

"I shouldn't have come back."
The movie begins with an assassination attempt on the life of Senator Amidala. When several of her staff lie dead she says: "I shouldn't have come back." Isn't she a senator? How could she possibly avoid coming back? In what way has she been representing her planet for the past ten years that hasn't involved being in the Senate Chamber with all the other senators?

Padme has just had an attempt on her life by an assasine yet hrs later she stands out on an OPEN balcony over looking the city? lol brilliant writing george!

Palpatine and Skywalker
When Anakin finally gets his first assignment on his own to protect the senator he and Palpatine have an exchange in Palpatine's chambers. "It seems that your patience has finally paid off," Palpatine says. "Your guidance, more than my patience," responds Anakin. What guidance? What are they talking about? This is the only exchange of dialogue between the two in the entire movie and nothing is ever mentioned of Palpatine's guidance. If they had shown any sort of bonding between these characters then perhaps this could have been a good scene but again we are forced to watch a scene which refers to things we either don't see or that never happen. It's as if Lucas felt he needed to build the relationship between the two but he was too busy making lousy special effects to bother including the interpersonal dialogue that it would have required. It may have even required a scene that wasn't filmed entirely in front of a blue screen.

Anakin the Jerk
Anakin goes from being this little sweetheart in The Phantom Menace to being a complete ***hole in Attack of the Clones. He's whiny, creepy, annoying, rude and arrogant. He also throws temper tantrums at two or three points in the movie. What happened to him? He was a pretty well adjusted kid and you would figure that under the guidance of the Jedi he would become even more stable. Instead he turned into a total doofus. He creeps out Amidala by just staring at her like a creepy stalker and when she says, "Please don't look at me like that," he responds by saying, "Sorry," but also displaying a sinister grin and continuing to stare at her! What kind of fool would do this and what's more is why would she be at all attracted to someone like this? There's absolutely no reason why she would fall in love with someone like this. Return of the Jedi works so hard at making the evil Darth Vader into a likeable character despite the things that he has done. This movie comes along and makes the viewer hate Anakin just because he's a total jerk. A huge hole is left in the plot as to why he became this way that just leaves us asking, "Why did Anakin become such a dickhead?"

War! What Is It Good For
The opening crawl for Revenge of the Sith . The first paragraph is as follows:

War! The Republic is crumbling under attacks by the ruthless Sith Lord, Count Dooku. There are heroes on both sides. Evil is everywhere.

I won't bore you with the remaining two paragraphs as I feel that the first paragraph sets the tone nicely enough. There are heroes on both sides. Who exactly are the heroes on the other side? Count Dooku? Nute Gunray? Presumably the other side's hero was that battle droid that said "Roger, roger!"

When the Jedi crash-land on Grievous's ship, Artoo jumps out of Anakin's fighter like some sort of droid acrobat. What's worse is that this happens again, later in the film. I am certainly interested to know what it is between Episode III and Episode IV that made Artoo lose his agility and special powers. Presumably, he also had the ability to fly out of the ship if he had so chosen! In Episode IV, they require a complex arrangement of cranes and suction pumps to insert and remove their R2 units from their ships. Perhaps this is part of the technological dark ages that typically follow the beginning of an empire. You know, those kind of dark ages.

It is also worthy of noting how bizarre it is that Grievous coughs as much as he does, considering he doesn't appear to have any lungs.

Obi-Wan's Lack of Injury
I don't understand what happened to Obi-Wan in the battle sequence. Dooku throws Obi-Wan aside, nearly breaking his back against a wall, and then he uses the Force to clearly crush Obi-Wan's legs under a giant walkway. You see Obi-Wan's body slide forward as his lower half gets mangled under the crushing weight of the platform. I assumed that both of his legs were completely crushed. However, after the duel, Anakin simply removes Obi-Wan without any trouble and puts him on his back. Obi-Wan does not spend the rest of the movie in a wheelhover chair as expected, but rather has suffered no damage at all to his legs and regains consciousness just seconds before swinging out an elevator door and getting up to run around again.

The Millennium Falcon
Georgie Boy just couldn't help himself. He had to insert the Millennium Falcon into Revenge of the Sith. Perhaps his lament that a five-year-old Han Solo may have been unnecessary was only overcome by this move. I can imagine him wrestling with his emotions, trying to fight it. His hands trembling as he reaches for his pen and finally gives in and writes it into the script. Afterwards, he must have gasped, tossed his pen aside and grinned his needle-toothed grin.

Fanboys will undoubtedly argue that it was not the Falcon but merely another Corellian freighter that resembled it. I refuse to believe that that is the case after spending the past six years seeing a baby Greedo, Chewbacca, the Tantive IV, Death Star plans and a ten year old Boba Fett. The only thing that surprises me is that the Millennium Falcon does not sweep across the foreground followed by a scene where a five-year-old Lando Calrissian loses the ship to a five-year-old Solo in a game of sabaac.

The Jedi Are Idiots
The Jedi have no shortage of chances to give everyone's favorite miscreant, Anakin Skywalker, the ability to destroy the galaxy. Anakin is clearly bad news. He has rage-inspired outbursts. He doesn't seem to appreciate the Jedi dress code and insists on wearing dark black. He loves to scowl. He shouts. He is impatient. He has trouble taking and accepting orders. He occasionally flips out and kills entire groups of people. So why is it that the Jedi continually give him more responsibilities?

Mace Windu: Master Yoda, we suspect the Sith Lord is someone high up in government. Someone very close to Palpatine.

Yoda: Close to Palpatine he is. With Palpatine Skywalker must stay. Learn of the Sith Lord he will.

Mace Windu: Good idea, Master Yoda. We will let Skywalker hang out in the midst of the Sith Lord. Our shakiest, most powerful, most unstable Jedi will do just fine in this assignment.

Yoda: A stroke of brilliance this Council has made.

Wookiee Tarzan Yell
Once again it has happened. In keeping with the true spirit of Star Wars, Lucas has decided to take the bad moves of the past and not smooth them over, but rather, highlight and elaborate on them in the new movies. One of the foulest moments of Return of the Jedi was when Chewbacca swung onto the AT-ST and let out his famous Tarzan yell. Some (myself included) feel that having Chewbacca yell in the manner of Tarzan, a character from Earth literature and film, was a rather poor move. Lucas, however, uses his own judgment. In his eyes, this moment was clearly an excellent move, a brilliant thing to have happen in a galaxy far, far away! So, in Revenge of the Sith, we are treated to what we can only assume is a traditional Wookiee war cry. And what's more, is that it's double the fun! What's the only thing better than a Wookiee swinging from a rope and yelling like Tarzan? Why, of course, two Wookiees swinging from a rope and yelling like Tarzan.


Palpatine's Manipulation
"Don't you wonder why the Jedi Council won't make you a Master?" "They don't trust you." "I would doubt the Council's judgment if they didn't choose you for this mission."

Why is Anakin such an idiot? How does he not see that he is being manipulated? It's as if Palpatine is reciting from The Beginner's Guide to Manipulating an Idiot.

"You must kill all the Jedi in the temple and then kill everyone in the Mustafar system. Then you will be powerful enough in the dark side to save Padme."

"Okay, do you think that will work?"

"Oh, yes, Anakin. Kill all the Jedi, especially the babies and the children, and you will be able to save Padme's life."

"Wow, it's so simple. Thanks Palps!"

*High Five*

Palpatine actually says that he must kill all the Jedi in the temple, that only then will he be strong enough with the Force to save Padme. Anakin sees no problem with this. It seems to naturally follow that he will gain the power to save his wife by killing all his friends.

Then, and this is what should really burn Anakin up, Palpatine informs Anakin that after he does this they will be able to figure out how this whole stopping people from dying thing actually works.

when mace windu and 3 jedi battle palpatine. It's apparent that the intent of this scene was to show how powerful Sidious is. Unfortunately, it fails for two reasons. 1.) We haven't really seen these Jedi do anything worthy of note. Aside from Kit Fisto deflecting blaster fire from battle droids in the previous movie (which, if these movies are any indicator, it seems anyone holding a lightsaber is able to do), we haven't seen him do anything outside of the cartoon series to show that he is even a subpar Jedi. Given our lack of knowledge about the inept Jedi "Masters" that Palpatine faces, he might as well be striking down his cleaning lady. 2.) The Jedi die so quickly, by such weak attacks, that they just look like a collection of fools.

If they'd already been shown as skilled swordsmen, then it would be quite shocking that Palpatine dispatched them so easily. Unfortunately, we don't know them from a hole in the wall, so Palpatine's seemingly harmless attacks make them look like unskilled circus performers.


Attack of the Clones
The first six hours of the prequel trilogy makes one thing perfectly clear: the Jedi can deflect an infinite amount of blaster fire with their lightsabers without taking so much as a single hit. It's interesting that the Jedi have the ability to flip and spin around, deflecting blaster fire from 360 degrees while destroying battle droids. However, it seems to take no more than four clone troopers shooting at them from the same direction to kill a Jedi It also doesn't help that the Jedi's ability to read emotions or sense any form of danger seems to not exist in the prequels. It must be the "shroud of the dark side," right?


Wookiee Escape Pod?
When Yoda's clones turn on him and he must make a quick escape from Kashyyyk, Chewbacca and Tarfful lead him to a pile of bushes that are hiding an escape pod. Luckily for Yoda, it seems to be an escape pod that Wookiees use if they ever need to ship their shins off of the planet in a hurry. Conveniently, Yoda is only about the size of a Wookiee's shins, so the pod is a perfect fit! What luck, Master Yoda. What luck!

Yoda & Obi-Wan's Plan
Yoda decides that he and Obi-Wan must split up, because any good plan usually begins with splitting up. Yoda will take care of Palpatine, and Obi-Wan will kill Anakin. Obi-Wan disagrees with this plan, because he doesn't think he can kill Anakin, being that they are so close. It is unclear why, seeing that Anakin is so far away, they don't both attack Palpatine together, then go for Anakin together as well. It's especially puzzling since every single battle the Jedi have had with the Sith have been two-on-one affairs: Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan versus Darth Maul, Obi-Wan and Anakin versus Count Dooku, Obi-Wan and Anakin versus Count Dooku again. I worry about the collective wisdom of Obi-Wan and Yoda if they choose now to finally level the playing field and have a fair one-on-one fight.

The Properties of Lava (Sweat? Battle + Lava = No sweat)
This battle ends up with Anakin and Obi-Wan riding hover-platforms mere feet over a lava flow. Now, I'm all for fantastic fantasy elements in movies (particularly Star Wars movies), but suspending disbelief at this point is beyond difficult. Given that lava is generally around 2000 degrees Fahrenheit (1093 degrees Celsius), I find it difficult to believe that Anakin and Obi-Wan not only have no problems battling without bursting into flames, but that they don't even break a sweat! You would think that the stress and exertion of combat alone would cause at least a few beads of sweat to form on their brows. Of course, the mysteries of the Force always allow for apologist excuses in any case. They were most likely using the secret Force climate-control technique to keep cool.

"She has lost the will to live..."
Bail and Obi-Wan get Padme to the medics as soon as they can. The silly-looking medical droid explains that, medically, Padme is in perfect health, yet they are losing her anyway. For good reason, this seems to confuse Bail and Obi-Wan, who are surprised that she's dying. "We can't explain it," the medical droid says. "She has lost the will to live." Ah, great. So the mother of Luke and Leia dies of a broken heart. She has lost the will to live and, by this point in the saga, I have lost the will to care.

Yoda's Training & Jedi Apparitions
Yoda lets Obi-Wan know that he has training for Obi-Wan while he's in solitude on Tatooine. Yoda has heard word from Qui-Gon Jinn and Qui-Gon has apparently "learned the path to immortality." This is, of course, an attempt to explain why everyone's favorite Jedi can always reappear as a Jedi apparition after their death.

The script and the novel both went into greater detail about how Qui-Gon Jinn communicated to Yoda and explained that he had learned a neat little trick about how to become "one with the Force" after death. It is a little difficult to swallow since Qui-Gon learned the secret of immortality after he died. But, I guess the Force midi-chlorians move in mysterious ways.

Another interesting question raised by this plot element is how Darth Vader seems to learn the same skill. Was he Force-eavesdropping on Obi-Wan while he communed with Qui-Gon on Tatooine? Did the Emperor teach him this trick? If so, why didn't the Emperor crash the party that the dead Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin had on Endor at the end of Return of the Jedi? Perhaps we will see the Emperor in the newer edition of Return of the Jedi when the six-film DVD set is released. I would fully expect a climax of 20 additional minutes where the three dead Jedi fight the dead Emperor using lightsabers. How will it turn out? We'll have to wait and see.

[Ixion]

You should at least credit the site you steal your posts.

I can't bring myself to respond to so much drivel but I'll just say on the point of why didn't Obi-Wan go along with Yoda to fight Palpatine, because he would probably have wound up the same way as Kit Fitso, Saesee Tiin and Agen Kolar. Obi-Wan wasn't in the same league as Palpatine and Yoda.

[Lordvader34]

I never said those reasons were mine.I said I agreed with them. if you notice all the """"" """""" meaning they were quoted.

What makes it all drivel? Each one makes a very good point and makes perfect sense. If you want to be bias and not acknowledge the issues those points bring up then by all means Make believe those problems do not exist if it makes you feel better.

[Zerimar Nyliram]

No one's "make believing" that these "problems" don't exists, they truly don't exist. Everything you've said so far have been things that any logical person would know better about, either from information provided in other parts of the movies or by deductive reasoning. The only reason these things are "jumping out at you" is because: a. you don't seem to be paying very much attention to the dialogue and the flow of the story at all, and b. well, you aren't using the rational part of your brain. I mean, who else can't figure out why it might be more than a little hard to assassinate the emperor of the freaking galaxy, for instance? Want to think about how hard it might be to do that to the president of the United States for a moment? Yeah, there you go.

[Primbud]

Jedi Cool, on 17 Nov 2009, 05:33 PM, said:

Jedi They fought pirates

What?!!
*joins the Sith league*

[Lordvader34]

this is just a few of the things i posted. now you explain to me how any of this makes sense

Attack of the Clones
The first six hours of the prequel trilogy makes one thing perfectly clear: the Jedi can deflect an infinite amount of blaster fire with their lightsabers without taking so much as a single hit. It's interesting that the Jedi have the ability to flip and spin around, deflecting blaster fire from 360 degrees while destroying battle droids. However, it seems to take no more than four clone troopers shooting at them from the same direction to kill a Jedi It also doesn't help that the Jedi's ability to read emotions or sense any form of danger seems to not exist in the prequels. It must be the "shroud of the dark side," right?


Obi-Wan's Lack of Injury
I don't understand what happened to Obi-Wan in the battle sequence. Dooku throws Obi-Wan aside, nearly breaking his back against a wall, and then he uses the Force to clearly crush Obi-Wan's legs under a giant walkway. You see Obi-Wan's body slide forward as his lower half gets mangled under the crushing weight of the platform. I assumed that both of his legs were completely crushed. However, after the duel, Anakin simply removes Obi-Wan without any trouble and puts him on his back. Obi-Wan does not spend the rest of the movie in a wheelhover chair as expected, but rather has suffered no damage at all to his legs and regains consciousness just seconds before swinging out an elevator door and getting up to run around again.

Padme has just had an attempt on her life by an assasine yet hrs later she stands out on an OPEN balcony over looking the city? lol brilliant writing george!

[Mike the Jedi]

These are obviously somebody else's copy-and-pasted arguments because I've read them before, but they're so easy to address I might as well...

Lordvader34, on 21 Nov 2009, 06:43 AM, said:

"I shouldn't have come back." The movie begins with an assassination attempt on the life of Senator Amidala. When several of her staff lie dead she says: "I shouldn't have come back." Isn't she a senator? How could she possibly avoid coming back? In what way has she been representing her planet for the past ten years that hasn't involved being in the Senate Chamber with all the other senators?

It's a clunky line, yes, mostly because of the "back" part (just how long has she been away? ... days, weeks, months? .. who the hell knows). But it's something that's supposed to be taken in context. She didn't mean she should have never come back to Coruscant-- that'd be ridiculous. She meant she shouldn't have come back to the Capital in the midst of the big vote (introduced in the opening crawl). She knew perfectly well that she was in exceptional danger of being assassinated for her views considering she's the "leader of the opposition," meaning her views are unpopular in many circles. We know that she knows she's at high risk of getting her ass killed because that's what Typho and her talk about just before the ship blows up. I think it would've sounded more dramatic if she just said, "I shouldn't have come," but Lucas will be Lucas so let sleeping banthas lie.

Lordvader34, on 21 Nov 2009, 06:43 AM, said:

Padme has just had an attempt on her life by an assasine yet hrs later she stands out on an OPEN balcony over looking the city? lol brilliant writing george!

True, but this is just being anal. To me, a throwaway shot like that isn't even worth wasting words on. Watch some films with the same critical eye and you'll find that sort of "nobody would do this in real life" silliness in practically every movie that has ever been made. If we're going to critique every unrealistic thing characters in films have ever done, we'd be here all night. While you're at it why not say, "how could nobody have seen Palpatine fighting Windu in his office? Jesus, for being married in secret, Padme and Anakin sure do spend a lot of time frolicking on their balcony for all the city to see." You see where I'm going with this? Suspend your disbelief a little and you'll find you will enjoy movies like Star Wars a lot more.

I might as well also point out that the balcony Padme and Typho are standing on in AOTC isn't open to the city. Look closely: there's a window there.

Lordvader34, on 21 Nov 2009, 06:43 AM, said:

Palpatine and Skywalker
This is the only exchange of dialogue between the two in the entire movie and nothing is ever mentioned of Palpatine's guidance. If they had shown any sort of bonding between these characters then perhaps this could have been a good scene but again we are forced to watch a scene which refers to things we either don't see or that never happen.

Writers should always strive to show rather than tell, yes, but there isn't always time in a movie like this to spell everything out for the audience, especially when it doesn't serve the plot of the current story. Some things must be left to the imagination for the sake of pacing and the main narrative. That scene with Palpatine and Anakin is great-- maybe the best in the movie. I will admit I would have liked it better if the Palpatine-Anakin relationship was set up in TPM. Then we'd know these two have been friends since the Naboo crisis, but that's just the McDiarmid fan in me wanting to see more scenes with Palpatine.

Lordvader34, on 21 Nov 2009, 06:43 AM, said:

Anakin the Jerk

I agree that George didn't have to turn Anakin into a whiny brat to make his eventual turn to the dark side more believable, but that's the way he decided to go. That's not an inconsistency, it's just a characterization... one that turned out to be unpopular. Like many people, I just didn't like the character. If I were George, I would have written Anakin as a heroic and mature but often deeply conflicted and troubled person who sometimes let his emotions get the best of him. That's different from a spikey haired GQ cover crybaby who throws temper tantrums when things don't go his way.

Lordvader34, on 21 Nov 2009, 06:43 AM, said:

War! The Republic is crumbling under attacks by the ruthless Sith Lord, Count Dooku. There are heroes on both sides. Evil is everywhere.

No argument there. If the TPM opening crawl was underwhelming, the ROTS crawl was simply cringe-worthy. The "heroes on both sides" part is just stupid while the "evil is everywhere" bit reads like a joke. Hard to believe anyone could be that pedestrian (or anti-poetic) if they tried.

Lordvader34, on 21 Nov 2009, 06:43 AM, said:

I am certainly interested to know what it is between Episode III and Episode IV that made Artoo lose his agility and special powers. It is also worthy of noting how bizarre it is that Grievous coughs as much as he does, considering he doesn't appear to have any lungs.

Almost two decades pass between ROTS and ANH; a lot could happen to an old droid like Artoo. With lungs or without, Grievous' cough and voice were just annoying.

Lordvader34, on 21 Nov 2009, 06:43 AM, said:

Obi-Wan's Lack of Injury
I don't understand what happened to Obi-Wan in the battle sequence. Dooku throws Obi-Wan aside, nearly breaking his back against a wall, and then he uses the Force to clearly crush Obi-Wan's legs under a giant walkway. You see Obi-Wan's body slide forward as his lower half gets mangled under the crushing weight of the platform. I assumed that both of his legs were completely crushed. However, after the duel, Anakin simply removes Obi-Wan without any trouble and puts him on his back. Obi-Wan does not spend the rest of the movie in a wheelhover chair as expected, but rather has suffered no damage at all to his legs and regains consciousness just seconds before swinging out an elevator door and getting up to run around again.

Could've been handled better, but this falls under suspension of disbelief.

Lordvader34, on 21 Nov 2009, 06:43 AM, said:

The Millennium Falcon
Georgie Boy just couldn't help himself. He had to insert the Millennium Falcon into Revenge of the Sith. Perhaps his lament that a five-year-old Han Solo may have been unnecessary was only overcome by this move. I can imagine him wrestling with his emotions, trying to fight it. His hands trembling as he reaches for his pen and finally gives in and writes it into the script. Afterwards, he must have gasped, tossed his pen aside and grinned his needle-toothed grin.

One of my biggest gripes about the prequels is that it makes the Star Wars Galaxy too small; there are too many cutesy and convenient connections between classic characters I would rather not have been connected. Many would just chalk that up to the Force, but "the Forced" seems like a more appropiate description. That said, the ROTS Falcon is nothing more than an Easter egg (like the ET senators in TPM). It's just the filmmakers having a little fun with the movie. You want to complain about fanservice, stick to ten-year old Boba Fett and Anakin building C3PO-- you know, things that actually matter.

Lordvader34, on 21 Nov 2009, 06:43 AM, said:

The Jedi Are Idiots

No argument there.

Lordvader34, on 21 Nov 2009, 06:43 AM, said:

Wookiee Tarzan Yell

It's just a movie. And I'm not trying to cop out, but life is too short to complain about something as trivial as an homage to Tarzan.

Lordvader34, on 21 Nov 2009, 06:43 AM, said:

Palpatine's Manipulation & Duel with the Jedi

Could have been handled better.

Lordvader34, on 21 Nov 2009, 06:43 AM, said:

Attack of the Clones
The first six hours of the prequel trilogy makes one thing perfectly clear: the Jedi can deflect an infinite amount of blaster fire with their lightsabers without taking so much as a single hit. It's interesting that the Jedi have the ability to flip and spin around, deflecting blaster fire from 360 degrees while destroying battle droids. However, it seems to take no more than four clone troopers shooting at them from the same direction to kill a Jedi It also doesn't help that the Jedi's ability to read emotions or sense any form of danger seems to not exist in the prequels. It must be the "shroud of the dark side," right?

More like the element of surprise, but I agree it would've been better if Ki-Adi-Mundi and Aayla Secura had a lot more than just a half dozen or so clones shooting at them from one direction, and if they got a few deflections in before being overwhelmed by the clone firepower.

Lordvader34, on 21 Nov 2009, 06:43 AM, said:

Wookiee Escape Pod?
When Yoda's clones turn on him and he must make a quick escape from Kashyyyk, Chewbacca and Tarfful lead him to a pile of bushes that are hiding an escape pod. Luckily for Yoda, it seems to be an escape pod that Wookiees use if they ever need to ship their shins off of the planet in a hurry. Conveniently, Yoda is only about the size of a Wookiee's shins, so the pod is a perfect fit! What luck, Master Yoda. What luck!

That's erroneous. Look how much space there is in the pod when Yoda gets in it and sits down. That pod was clearly designed to hold someone much larger than Yoda. Could definitely fit a wookiee in it anyway.

Lordvader34, on 21 Nov 2009, 06:43 AM, said:

Yoda & Obi-Wan's Plan
Yoda decides that he and Obi-Wan must split up, because any good plan usually begins with splitting up. Yoda will take care of Palpatine, and Obi-Wan will kill Anakin. Obi-Wan disagrees with this plan, because he doesn't think he can kill Anakin, being that they are so close. It is unclear why, seeing that Anakin is so far away, they don't both attack Palpatine together, then go for Anakin together as well. It's especially puzzling since every single battle the Jedi have had with the Sith have been two-on-one affairs: Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan versus Darth Maul, Obi-Wan and Anakin versus Count Dooku, Obi-Wan and Anakin versus Count Dooku again. I worry about the collective wisdom of Obi-Wan and Yoda if they choose now to finally level the playing field and have a fair one-on-one fight.

Obi-Wan would have been no match against Palpatine and Yoda knew it. Yoda wasn't even sure he was capable of taking on the Sith master. I also think of Yoda sending Obi-Wan off to fight a much easier opponent as a sort of insurance against the Sith in case Yoda might get killed in the duel with the Emperor. Yoda figured Obi-Wan would be much more useful in defeating Vader, and he was right. Maybe it wasn't the most logical decision to split up, but you can see why Yoda might make it.

Lordvader34, on 21 Nov 2009, 06:43 AM, said:

The Properties of Lava (Sweat? Battle + Lava = No sweat)

I will gladly suspend my disbelief if it means I get to see a badass lightsaber fight on a lava planet. What, would you prefer they were fighting in some place as dramatic as.... oh, I dunno... Padme's apartment? Come on, the gravity of that duel required an epic setting like Mustafar, and we knew lava was going to be involved before the prequels were even made. If they're not sweating as much as they should, big deal. This is fantasy space opera, not serious science fiction.

Lordvader34, on 21 Nov 2009, 06:43 AM, said:

"She has lost the will to live..."

Yep, not Padme's most sympathetic moment.

Lordvader34, on 21 Nov 2009, 06:43 AM, said:

Yoda's Training & Jedi Apparitions

Convoluted Force ghost trick is convoluted.

This post has been edited by Mike the Jedi: 21 November 2009 - 01:46 PM

[Zerimar Nyliram]

A lot of the stuff you're saying, Lordvader34, falls into the area of nitpicking rather than inconsistencies in story. Yeah, I also noticed the fact that Obi-Wan and Vader aren't sweating as much as they should on Mustafar, and that it was a little cheap how the clone troopers could take down the Jedi with blaster fire (but bear in mind that these were impromptu sneak attacks by friends who were acting out of duty rather than hatred, which undoubtedly caught the Force-attuned Jedi off guard), but who the hell cares? It's science fiction! Physical unlikelihoods are expected! You're missing the whole point of entertainment by looking at it with a realistic mindset. It's called suspension of disbelief.

I'm surprised you haven't brought up the fact that there are fires and explosions and loud noises in space. If these things don't bother you as well, then you are being hypocritical when things like lack of sweat do. Science fiction seldom aims to be physically accurate.

This is bordering on Sith Lord Skywalker territory.

(As an aside, I couldn't help but notice the stylistic inconsistency of the two middle paragraphs of your last post in comparison to your first and last lines - mainly grammatical usage and lack of uncorrected typos - this time with no quotation marks. You are pulling your arguments from elsewhere which confirms my suspicion that you viewed these movies with a preconceived notion that the prequels were going to be terrible based on what others say, and you went through them finding absolutely anything that could possibly back this up, not paying much attention to the actual flow of the story and dialogue. Don't be lazy!)

[Lordvader34]

I find it amazing that some of you just dismiss these problems and sweep them under the carpet. I am a new star wars fan and I find these things to be awful anbd offensive. I would think those of yoiu that grew up with starwars would ahve expected much more dedication and quality from lucas and when a preoblem arises you would be upset with it and not sweep it under the carpet and say :who the hell car4es its cience fiction" I dont care if a movie is sci fi or horror. I want a film that is well writen and well directed and well thought out

one of you dismissed the not sweating around lava and said "who cares" well if you care about the movies why wouldnt you care? why would it have been so much trouble for lucass to make them sweat to make the scene actually seem realastic? it just points to one thing ....a lack of caring on lucas part. that upsets me.



considering lucas hads been retired for 20 yrs and he himself has admitted he is a god awful writer he would have hired some people to write and direct the most awaited film in the history of movies. One must ask thgemselves WHY? My friend showed me his copy of a 1997 entertinment weekly and rickmcallaum is interviwed and he says and I quote 'one of georges biggest goals is to come in under budget and and save as much money as possible" Well I would think not hiritng a director and not hiring screenplay writer is a fine way to save money and we see the results dont we? filsm poorly lacking in both direction and writing.

Its no wonder the empire strikes back is so heardled as a great film and was voted the 2nd best sequel of all time. 2nd only to the godfather part 2 when you consider Lucas did not write it and lucas did not direct it. he also did not write any of the indiana jones films till the last one and we see the drop in quality in that film too dont we? I think the bottom line here is Lucas is just an awful director and an awfuil writer. Which clearly was not always the case when you look at a new hope and american graffati. Back then Its clear his goal was to make a name for himself and put out quality films compared to now where his goals seem to be to save money/cut corners and just make as big a profit as possible.

Soon as I read that mcallaum interview in entertainment weekly that explained to me why the PT films are so bad. you cant start a project and have your main goal to be save money instead of making your goal be to make the best film possibl no matter the cost and expect the film to be good.


I just read an interview with gary kurtz the producer of a new hope empire strikes back and americna graffti and he said lucas got angry at him for going so far over budget on empire strikes back but after it was all finished he told george "yes we went over budget but the end result was worth it"

maybe if lucas still had people like gary kurtz in his crew instead oif yes men like mcallaum who just focus on MONEY the prequels could have turned out good.

[Exodus]

oh yay let me play

Lordvader34, on 21 Nov 2009, 12:21 PM, said:

Attack of the Clones
The first six hours of the prequel trilogy makes one thing perfectly clear: the Jedi can deflect an infinite amount of blaster fire with their lightsabers without taking so much as a single hit. It's interesting that the Jedi have the ability to flip and spin around, deflecting blaster fire from 360 degrees while destroying battle droids. However, it seems to take no more than four clone troopers shooting at them from the same direction to kill a Jedi It also doesn't help that the Jedi's ability to read emotions or sense any form of danger seems to not exist in the prequels. It must be the "shroud of the dark side," right?

I'll tackle this one first, and I'll do it in like a few sentences. I don't expect uber multi-layer bull**** from Star Wars, so I'll make it simple.

How would YOU react if close friends and comrades that you've known, fought with, protected, been protected by, trusted, believed in, etc etc etc for several years...well, just started trying to kill you for no apparent reason? Raising their guns at you is one thing, but are you certain? So you hesitate in a wtf kind of way that would never come to mind when THE ENEMY raises a weapon in your direction. But these are you friendlies. Teammates. Allies. Friends. People close to you. Your guard is DOWN in their presence.

Quote

"When have I ever let you down?"
- Commander Cody to Obi-Wan in Episode III

Jedi don't have spider sense anyway, so it's not like they can immediately detect danger within their vicinity by default.

Those who survived were much stronger in the Force (Yoda) or a little crafty or lucky (Obi-Wan) or otherwise.

Thanks for coming.

This post has been edited by Exodus: 21 November 2009 - 07:19 PM

[Zerimar Nyliram]

Oh, for God's sake, no one is dismissing these "problems" because you're making them up! You're bringing up stupid things that anyone who paid half attention to the rest of the movie wouldn't think twice about! Bottom line: You're just paying attention, you douche!

Man, it's like talking to a fifth grader!

"Why is Anakin wearing a black glove in the third movie? That makes no sense!"

"Well, did you see him get his hand chopped off in the second movie? Did you see that robot arm he had at the end?"

"Yeah, but they never showed him putting on a glove, and now it's just magically there! And why is his hair long? Huh? How'd that happen? These are problems that make no sense! Waaaaaahhhh . . . !

[Mara Jade Skywalker]

Quote

Its no wonder the empire strikes back is so heardled as a great film and was voted the 2nd best sequel of all time. 2nd only to the godfather part 2 when you consider Lucas did not write it

Yes, he did. He was a screenwriter. I clarified this in another thread. He was not credited as a screenwriter because Leigh Brackett died during early drafts and he wanted to credit her in the film instead.

[Lordvader34]

thats not true. lawerence kasdan wrote the empire strikes back. leigh bracket did the first draft but died right afterwards. lucas DID NOT write the screenplay to empire strikes back and I defy you to find any proof that he did. again LAWERENCE KASDAN wrote the screen play. the same guy that wrote the screenplay to raiders of the lost arc

this is from wikipedia

"George Lucas commissioned Kasdan in 1979 to complete the screenplay for The Empire Strikes Back after the death of Leigh Brackett. Lucas then commissioned Kasdan to write the screenplay for Raiders of the Lost Ark and the last installment of the Star Wars trilogy, Return of the Jedi. Kasdan made his directing debut in 1981 with Body Heat, which he also wrote."


nice try though on your part to make Lucas look like a good writer. reality takes over though. sorry

Mara Jade Skywalker, on 21 Nov 2009, 07:49 PM, said:

Quote

Its no wonder the empire strikes back is so heardled as a great film and was voted the 2nd best sequel of all time. 2nd only to the godfather part 2 when you consider Lucas did not write it

Yes, he did. He was a screenwriter. I clarified this in another thread. He was not credited as a screenwriter because Leigh Brackett died during early drafts and he wanted to credit her in the film instead.

[Mara Jade Skywalker]

1. I never said that Lawrence Kasdan wasn't a screenwriter for ESB.

2. Perhaps I'm mistaken. But I have been a SW fan for a pretty long time and I remember reading/hearing somewhere that after Leigh Brackett died, Lucas collaborated with Kasdan to finish the screenplay. If I am wrong, then I am wrong.

3. I didn't point that out to argue that Lucas is a good writer. Actually, I DON'T think he's a good writer. So there's no need to get pissy, ok?

EDIT: Just checked wikipedia for ESB and it said that Lucas wrote the second draft after Brackett died, then hired Kasdan. So, I WASN'T totally wrong.

This post has been edited by Mara Jade Skywalker: 21 November 2009 - 08:29 PM