[obi wan quixote]

I wondered about this so I went back and checked the DVD, and lo and behold, there it was- a testament to PJ and his crew and their attention to detail.

As Frodo is crawling backwards away from the witch king, you can clearly see the remains of Galdalf's fire (from the book) and also the stack of wood that he left (or, as Aragorn surmises, a fellow ranger might have left)- I think it very cool that even though they did not indicate anywhere in the films the whole bit about gandalf being at weathertop shortly before aragorn and the hobbits were, they were true to the book. you can look at that scene and know that even though it wasn't on screen, they're concerned about the whole story, even those parts of the book, like the above, that have to be left to subtle implication in the films...

[Glesca]

I love that thing they do (lol I can't put it any better words). For example, even though Tom Bombadil wasn't in FOTR, the screenwriters gave some of Bombadils original lines in the book to Treebeard in the TTT adaptation. Stuff like that is great thumbs_u . However, I haven't actually noticed that with Gandalf and the fire...hmm, must watch again.

[Bib Fortuna]

I really liked what you pointed out OBQ, but i HATED what you pointed out JK . I remember watching the FOTR EE DVD and at one point the writer Philipa says that in regard to some treasured book scenes which were left out, they PURPOSEFULLY made the movie so that nothing was canceled out, it just wasnt shown. In other words, she mentioned that if you watch closely, theres no reason to believe that FOTR negates the Tom Bombadil experience, it simply wasnt shown in the movie...or something along those lines.

well now they've gone and negated the experience by giving his lines and story to Treebeard. It's not that big of a deal to me im not upset about it but there was definately a change in policy towards incorporating some more obscure book events into the movies.

[The Choc]

They already had taken out the Bombadil stuff when Aragorn gives the hobbits their weapons, and not Ol Tom.

[obi wan quixote]

True, dat. No barrowwights, no swords. I suppose ol Aragorn regularly carries around four hobbit-sized swords with him.

By the way, are the barrows in that area of middle earth the remnants of the scattered kingdoms of the Numenorean realm?

[RangerGal]

And that Nazgul burn like brands and carry out swordfights, too? Heh...
Weathertop for me was trash. Lamely put on, in my opinion. Turned it into a "Hercules The Series" style fight. Dreadful from beginning to end.

Well, perhaps Frodo's vision of the Nazgul whilst he wore The Ring was good. Yes, I liked that. But the rest I would chop up and feed to my cats.


And yes, the barrows were on the outskirts of that realm. Oh, dang it all you're going to send me running for my Red Book! Give me a moment and I'll name the people and their home.

[RangerGal]

They were the graves of the Princes of Cardolan, a once proud city of the Edain. (Circa The First-Second Ages?) It was said that in the Third Age, The Witch-King of Angmar cursed their graves and set upon them evil spells.

Why? I ponder this regularly. The Edain had obviously made weapons against the Witch King. One of the swords carried by the Hobbits was meant for him. Can you guess which? And who carried it?
The others were set against evil, with spells and workings that predate The War of The Ring. THey guard against things like the Black Breath, and can stand the touch of a Black Rider!

Bombadil was right to pull them from the grave. And did you notice what Bombadil took for himself? The brooch, to give to his wife?
He spoke of a Lady fair who once wore it. I often ponder whom it was that he spoke of.

[obi wan quixote]

In my opinion, the weathertop scene was great, mostly for the almost ballet-like unison in which the wraiths encircled the hobbits and lowered their swords and slowly aproached. Very similar to the grimly choreographed way in which they burst into the Prancing Pony, each wraith going by the frightened Butterbur with their sword perpendicular to the ground, one after the other, the unified way in which they stand over what they thought were the beds of the hobbits.

Those kind of movements I always viewed as a great strength- this group mentality driven by the ring, moving essentially as one in terrifying beauty...much better than if they were randomly attacking with hobbits with their swords (at weathertop) and being all haphazard and loose.

[Glesca]

Well, the portion of the book with Tom Bombadil bored the **** out of me so it didn't bother me either way if he was included in the adaptations or not.

[XIII]

Quote

Jango Kenobi:
Well, the portion of the book with Tom Bombadil bored the **** out of me so it didn't bother me either way if he was included in the adaptations or not.

Thank God! I thought I was the only one.

[Glesca]

Quote

XIII:
 

Quote

XIII:
Well, the portion of the book with Tom Bombadil bored the **** out of me so it didn't bother me either way if he was included in the adaptations or not.

Thank God! I thought I was the only one.

What I really can't understand is how some people were rather pissed off that Tom Bombadil wasn't included in the Fellowship movie. I mean, what was so good about the character anyway? Personally, I thought the character was boring and uninteresting but that's me.

[obi wan quixote]

I loved the Tom Chapter in the book, but there was no reason at all to put it in the film. Nothing to do with the ring, and the story is about the ring.

[RangerGal]

Well, I'm not surprised that many of you found Tom Bombadil boring.

If you found him boring I think it's for the same reason that others have expressed their loathing of Tolkien's descriptives.

Tom was a metaphor - no, the embodiment of something you don't yet understand. If you paid closer attention, you might have noted that he couched his sentenses with riddles about Frodo's purpose, his life, and most importantly, the making of Arda.

There were terribly intense and horrifying foreshadowings in those chapters - of Frodo's wanderings, about Gandalf, about the rest of the books! I found myself having to finish and go on to other chapters before sleeping after reading them... they were so frightening. But that's me, and I know of what Tom was speaking. You would have to finish the books and then go back to understand him, I think.
No matter, Tom grows on people as they get older, and I'm sure, if you gave him the chance, he would grow on you, too.

Try this link for more info:
http://www.nightly.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb....t=001611#000001

[Duke]

Quote

RangerGal:
And that Nazgul burn like brands and carry out swordfights, too? Heh...
Weathertop for me was trash. Lamely put on, in my opinion. Turned it into a "Hercules The Series" style fight. Dreadful from beginning to end.

Not to mention that the Nazgul are shown as totally inept and thus not scary at all. Aragorn doesn´t break a sweat to beat a bunch up, including the Witch-King of Angmar, and then we´re supposed to find the Witch-King menacing again in Pelennor Fields? Please!

[Yoda Dude]

I thought that the the incident with Old Man Willow, being changed to the TTT EE dvd, was realy corny. I wasn't bothered by it happening, just the way they did it seemed horrible.

[RangerGal]

Tell us more, Yoda Dude! I hadn't heard about that!

[Yoda Dude]

I'm talking about when Pippen and Merry are drinking the Ent Drout, and the tree swollows them up, and then Treebeard comes and rescues them.

I dunno, it was just the whole way it came about. Pippen and Merry just fighting over a bucket of water from a stream that they were standing right next too, and then somehow going from being next to the tree, from falling through leaves a few feet away. Then when Treabeerd comes around, and they get out, just seems so poorly done.

And then somehow, the Ents still need to have a meeting to decide wether or not Merry and Pippen aren't orcs.

[Michael_Martinez]

The barrow-downs were used by the First Age Edain who never entered Beleriand to bury their dead. Cardolan was a region, not a city. It was established as part of the Kingdom of Arnor by Elendil at the end of the Second Age. In the Third Age, when Arnor was divided among the sons of the last High King, Cardolan became and independent kingdom. Its kings and princes were buried in Tyrn Gorthad (Cardolan).

The Line of Isildur ruled Cardolan from 863 TA to about 1350 TA. After the last Isildurian king died in Cardolan, the Kings of Arthedain claimed royal authority over Cardolan. Cardolan more-or-less accepted the claim, and it allied itself against Rhudaur and Angmar in the wars of 1356 ad 1409.

Cardolan was overrun in 1409 and many of its people were slain. Most fled to Arthedain or took refuge in Tyrn Gorthad and the Old Forest, where they were attacked. The last prince of Cardolan was slain in that war in Tyrn Gorthad. It was supposedly his barrow where the wight imprisoned the Hobbits.

There is an oblique reference to Bombadil in Peter Jackson's "The Two Towers" movie. Merry mentions something which makes paths in the Old Forest. However, the context of his conversation with Pippin seems to imply there are actually ENTS living in the Old Forest, rather than Bombadil.

[RangerGal]

Ha, Michael, you grace us again. Well looked up.
I did not go for my appendices, for I'm afraid most are not that interested in that detailed a background of Isildur's people. But well done! You know I appreciate the knowlege placed right here before our eyes. Saved me hours of reading and typing, too!

Merry, merry Christmas to you.
Will you be lining up to see ROTK with the rest of us? laugh

[Toney, Christopher Toney]

On the subject of little details PJ stuck in the movies, to pay respect to book chapters which were never filmed, here's something I recently discovered after sifting through my books. The song Gollum sings when Frodo calls him 'Smeagol', "Cold be heart and hand and head", is from the song-spell of the Barrow-wights! Isn't that cool?!

[CheshireCat]

Well, in all diplomacy, this tiny detail is most likely erroneous, as Gandalf was cited in the book as to have left burn marks like ones left from a lightning strike, because he had fought the wraiths on Weathertop.